THE STARTUP CHAT

Steli Efti:

Hey everybody, this is Steli Efti.

Hiten Shah:

And this is Hiten Shah, and today on the startup chat, we’re gonna talk about  how to manage your emotions in a startup.

Steli Efti:

Yeah, we all know that the rollercoaster example has been used many, many times. The  emotional rollercoaster of starting a startup. It’s a funny image and it’s very truthful for  those that hear it. It does mimic the highs and lows and the intensities of  a startup from an emotional point of view, but it’s very rarely that we talk  about how to deal with that. And how to manage your own emotions. So I  thought that it would be a fun episode for us to just pick a bunch  of challenging emotions that you’re probably gonna have to face and states of mind that  you’re gonna have to face as you’re starting a company and building your business. And  just common from both of us in terms of how we’ve learned to deal with  these emotions, what kind of best practices we’ve utilized, just talk a little bit about  that. I’ve written down a list of emotions I could think of this morning on  the way here. So we can just pick one emotion at a time and just  chit chat about it and go back and forth.

Hiten Shah:

Sounds great.

Steli Efti:

Let’s start with probably one of the most intense emotions and one that is the  easiest to think about, and then we can work our way into more nuanced emotions.  Let’s talk with fear. What do you do when you are afraid? How do you  deal with the emotion of fear while building your startup?

Hiten Shah:

Have not fear. Literally, like the best answer I can give anybody on that, if  they ask me that, just like you did. Have no fear. What is fear? It’s  like, I think Will Smith is the one … I don’t credit him with this,  obviously, but he says, “I have fear. I have fear of fear.”

Steli Efti:

Hmm.

Hiten Shah:

That’s straight up where it’s at, you know? I’m a big Will Smith fan. I  really think he is very motivational, to be honest. Watch some videos of his on  YouTube. I like his perspective. At the end of the day, though, fear. What is fear? It’s irrationality. It’s focusing on things you can’t control. And I know this is  a theme across a lot of our non-tactical podcasts, Steli, but when you’re in fear  or you fear something from a business startup standpoint, it’s usually because you don’t have  enough information, you don’t have clarity, and/or you’re focused on things you just can’t control.  A lot of things are not in your control in a startup. You don’t know  what’s gonna happen tomorrow. And that’s okay. That’s the reason you’re doing this. There’s my  motivational speech on fear.

Steli Efti:

I love it. What I’ll say about fear is that, I think that the best  way to deal with it is actually to just think through it, because fear is  an emotion that historically has its place, in terms of being a utility to survival.  But, in a startup, I won’t say never, but it should be very rare that  you have to fear for your life. Right? That should not be a common occurrence,  but the things that you’re really afraid of are different things. The fear that most  people have is to make a mistake. Is not to accomplish what they want. Is  to be embarrassed. Is to whatever it is. It’s some kind of a psychological irrational  thing that if you actually sit down and you do the exercise of writing down, “Hey, in the worst case scenario, what could really happen? What’s the worst that could  happen here? And then what happens after that? And then what happens after that?” Eventually  you’ll get to a point that you’ll realize that there’s nothing really to fear. Even  in the worst case scenario, if you play it down long enough, you’re gonna arrive  at something that doesn’t matter. Like, what’s gonna happen if we make this … The  worst thing that could happen is we make a bad decision. And then we’re gonna  not be able to raise money. And then? And then we’re gonna run out of  money. And then? Then we’re gonna be out of business. And then? I don’t know,  then I’m gonna have to find a job. Okay, and then? Well, then I’m gonna  have to try again and start a new startup. Okay, how life threatening is that,  really? So, just playing it through all the way to the end of the thing  that you are afraid of, a lot of times gives people enough of a timeline,  and extended timeline to have perspective and to realize, “Yeah, you know, I don’t want  that to happen, but it’s not the worst thing of the world. I definitely don’t have to be afraid of it.” Now, let’s take another … It’s an opposing …  it’s not really an opposing emotion, but it’s kind of an element opposite end of  the spectrum, but it’s still negative. So, I don’t want to go from fear to something super positive. But, let’s gro from fear to anger, alright? Anger is still very  negative, but it’s a much more empowering emotion. It’s a much more high energy emotion  versus fear is an emotion that takes a lot of energy and power away from  you physically speaking. What do you do and how do you deal with the emotion  of anger? What do you do when you are pissed off and you are angry  in a startup?

Hiten Shah:

Damn, I’ll my answers are just gonna be so blunt. Don’t get-

Steli Efti:

Don’t be angry.

Hiten Shah:

Don’t get pissed off and angry. Honestly though, let’s say you’re pissed off and angry.  Why are you pissed off and angry? Why are you really? This whole five whys  exercise of asking yourself why five times. Just do that. And you’ll get to some  root cause that you probably didn’t … Wasn’t on the surface. Right? It could be  as stupid as, I didn’t eat enough today.

Steli Efti:

Yeah, hangry. For those of us who have children, we’re pretty familiar with that.

Hiten Shah:

I don’t even need to have children to be familiar with that. Hangry. Hangry is  one of the number one causes of being angry. I think for children as well  as adults, because sometimes you just don’t eat. Too much coffee and not enough food.  So that’s one example I’d give you, but honestly man, why you gotta get angry?  Why you gotta get angry? Figure out what … You know what? Most of the  stuff around how do you manage emotion, has everything to do with understanding where your  emotions come from. And most of the time your emotions are coming from the same  place over and over again. Right? And how many people, like Freudian, or psychological, or  spiritual, things like that. Emotions have root cause. There’s only one of three places emotions  come from. And if you really dig in deep and find the patterns of what  triggers you, that’s good, because there are millions of triggers for your emotions, then the  emotions you feel, most people, they feel the same emotions over and over again, and  they come from the same place. Something with childhood. Something with again, I think honestly, some come from childhood, whether it’s really young all the way to college. And then  post college, most things tend to be very in terms of your patterns. Maybe even  post high school. And if you could just think through, what are my triggers? What  are the common emotions I feel, and when I feel them how can I recognize  them? And I’ll give a quick tip and the angry and the emotion thing. I’ve  given this tip before for stuff, but I write it down. I literally write down,  “She said this, and it made me feel like this, and now, I want to  strangle her.” And literally, if you write that down, you’re like, “Oh that sounds absurd.  Why do I even feel that way?” But, that’s a very aggressive emotion. You probably  wouldn’t share that with the person that makes you feel that way. But, if you feel that way, it’s okay. So the first thing is don’t judge yourself for feeling  that way. Figure out why you feel that way, and that’s how you’ll stop feeling  that way.

Steli Efti:

I love it. Write it down. But, here’s my tip, don’t write to that person.  So, never write an email. Never write an email in anger. Never write a text  in anger. It will always come off much harsher than even what you meant, and it’s just gonna make things a much bigger problem. When you’re really angry, you need  to figure something out a high level of conflict with another human being, the best  thing to do is to find a way to calm down. Writing things down, thinking  things through might be a good idea, and then when you want to confront that  person, but you want to do it in person whenever possible. You want to be  able to have eye contact. You want to be able to have the context rich  environment of seeing somebody’s body language, having them see how hurt you are or why you’re angry. It’s gonna be a much different scenario. I’m gonna say, regarding angry, often  times, obviously it all comes back to understanding. Actually staring to take much more stock  and being much more in tune and self aware of how you feel and what  emotional stage you’re in, because that’s gonna help you a lot in just being in control in the way you want to engage and how you want to engage in  things. Right? Sometimes, if you notice that you’re really angry, and you’re about to go  into a meeting and you kind of can sense that you are really aggressive in  your reactions to certain things that are being brought up, although your anger has nothing  to do with that meeting, or with the person that you’re interacting with. That alone  can help you to stop and either bring people into it and go, “Hey, I’m  actually in a really bad state right now, so maybe I want to apologize if  I come here across too aggressive.” Or, find some way to create context around that.  But, I would always ask myself, why am I angry? What happened … If it’s  about another person, if it’s not that I’m just in a bad mood, because I have eaten, slept, or had too much coffee, or something else, often times anger is  just things that have built up for way too long and then you explode. There’s  some kind of an emotion, something that was irritating you about a human being or  about a situation, and you didn’t deal with it when it was small, so it  has built up over time and now it feels massive, not because today is that  big of a deal usually, but because it has accumulated over such a long time.  The best way is to find ways to get off steam, so writing things down  is a rational way of doing it. Another thing that I’ll offer is, be just  a physical way to get that energy out of your system. A lot of times  when people are really, really angry, there’s a lot of built up internal emotion and  energy, and it’s just a good idea to find out a vessel for that. That’s  productive. For some people that might be, just go for a run, or go to  the gym, or really do a really hard workout. Really just push as hard as  possible, or just go to a heavy bag and kick the heavy bag’s ass. Do  something that’s physically also exhausting, that allows you to channel all the built up energy  and amped up energy. That alone is gonna make you feel much better. It’s gonna  regulate your internal biochemistry and release some endorphins, and make you feel a little calmer.  And then sitting down and writing down what really happened and why you felt the  way you are. All that should get to a much better place, that then allows you to take the next step and actually deal with the person or situation that  got you into that super intense negative state of mind. Let’s take another one. Let’s  take an emotion that’s a little bit more nuance, and more interesting. Confused. How do  you at times, you might go through confusion, where you’re just like, you don’t know  how to deal with the data you’re seeing, with the situation you’re in. You don’t  know what direction to go. It could be overwhelming, but confusion is distinctly different. It’s  interesting, those two emotions, feeling overwhelmed is different from feeling confused. Maybe talk about that  kind of a state, where it’s not like fearful, anger, those are super intense emotions,  but confusion, or overwhelming might be less intense, but much more common. Day in, day  out, over the years as you’re trying to build your startup. How do you deal  with that?

Hiten Shah:

Man, I think one thing that I struggle with, but it’s so related to this,  and I just keep having to remind myself, and when I do things just get  better. It’s almost like … Heaton. This is almost self talk, right? Heaton, you should focus on the big important things. Don’t worry about all of these small little things  that bother you. And often I find myself saying that to myself. And it’s been  really helpful. And let me be clear. I don’t mean I shouldn’t worry about that  little pixel that’s off on a design, because that’s my thing. I’m gonna really worry  about that. But, I’m not gonna worry about why someone got it wrong. Or why  that designer isn’t doing a great job of it. I’m gonna show them. Give them  an example. But, what I mean is that sometimes you just get so caught up  in some small shit that just doesn’t matter. Is it gonna matter tomorrow? Is it  gonna matter a week from now? Is it gonna matter a month from now? Is  it gonna matter a year from now? If the answer is no, then just get  it out of your head. Don’t be so emotional about it, and move on. And  that’s … My answer to this is self talk, and that’s exactly the kind of thing that, when I remember, and I say to myself, it helps. The other thing  I said earlier about focusing on what you control? Super related to this. If I’m  really struggling with something in my business, I’m like, “Wait, what do we control here?  What do we actually control? What can we impact? Oh, ourselves. Our execution. What we  do. Okay, great.” Everything else we can’t. We can’t impact the outside world without us  doing something. So, there’s no reaction from anybody unless we don something about it. That  means, you do things you control. And if you can’t control things right now, figure  out how to get control of them. I’m not one to say, “Oh let it  go.” I’m one to say, “Hey, what are the variables? What are the levers? What  are the things that are not in my control and how do I get control  of them?” Or just focus on the things that I can control, and that very  much relates to this big picture, big things versus small things. If it’s not gonna  matter in a very short period of time, and it’s just not an important thing,  then why am I so hung up on it right now?

Steli Efti:

I love it. I love also the self talk example in the beginning, because a  lot of people don’t realize that a very large portion of emotions and emotional states,  start with the self talk that we have. Right? A lot of times, you’ve talked yourself into an emotion. You started asking yourself, “Why is this not working? Why is  this person not doing this? It’s never working well, I’m just done, I don’t know  what to do.” And after you’ve talked like that to yourself for a few minutes,  all of a sudden the emotion starts growing and you get into a really strong  . Self talk can be the way into emotional states, and often times is the  way out of them as well. I don’t know. The one thing that I’ll say  in terms of how to deal with overhwelmance is that whenever I’m overwhelmed … And  I had this situation yesterday. There was like, there are a lot of things were  going on yesterday in my mind at least, a lot of things that I had  to decide a lot of things I had to figure out, a lot of things  on my plate. I had this moment of overwhelmant. Of just like, “Oh my god,  there’s so much fucking going on, I just can’t deal with all of this. Then, what I often do, what I catch myself in that kind of a state of  mind, is I tell myself, “What is really, honestly, and truly going on right this  second, in this room, right in front of me?” And then I kind of …  it helps me to leave my mind, where a million things are going on and  to get back in touch with reality of the present moment. The present moment, I’m  just sitting here at a desk, there’s a laptop. There’s nothing. There’s not a hundred  people screaming at me, there’s nobody shooting at me. I’m not … There’s nothing, there’s  no craziness going on, I’m just here, it’s actually pretty calm, it’s a desk and  my laptop. I’m like, “Okay, so there might be many things I want to do.  But, I’m just gonna deal with one thing at a time. What’s the most important  thing I need to do? Or the most urgent thing I need to decide today?  Well, I haven’t decided about this thing. Okay, let’s just decide that thing.” And once  I’ve decided it, I go, “See, it’s just one thing, there’s not a hundred things  I have to do at one time, it’s just one thing at a time.” I  don’t know, it just helps me … There’s this meditation thing I once read from somebody that was saying truly take a deep breath in and out and truly ask  yourself what is the problem I have in this very moment. Usually in most moments,  you don’t really have problem. Even if you’re bankrupt, even if financing, even if you  have a big argument with your spouse or your partner, even if there’s big things  going on in your life, in the present moment often times, there’s not much really  going on. It’s in our head. So, for me the way to get out of  the state of overwhelment or confusion often times is to get present in the moment  and realize that the moment is not that overwhelming. This very moment is actually not  that confusing. All I have to do is just focus on the present and deal  with what is right in front of me versus being so stuck in my own  head, thinking about a million things at a time and making myself overwhelmed or confused.  That helps often times for me. Here’s another one. And this is a tricky emotion,  maybe it’s going to be the last one, maybe the second to last. Let’s see.  How do you deal with the emotion of feeling cynical or overly critical? You know,  where you’re just like … You’re in a state of mind that makes you feel  like all of this is bull shit or yeah, these might be good ideas, but we don’t know what we don’t know yet, or there’s a very high chance they’re  not gonna pan out the way we said, or the timeline we said. You know,  when you’re kind of in a … You’ve been burned often enough, or you’ve been experienced enough to really get into a highly cynical state, where you’re just like, you  feel really super critical, you feel like poking holes in everything, and tearing down everything  that’s around you. How do you deal with that state of mind? That’s an interesting  one to me.

Hiten Shah:

Get out of your head, go for a walk, realize that it’s not productive. Right?  When you want to tear everything down that badly, something is wrong with you. Like  deeply wrong. Not like, “Hey, you have problems.” I’m just saying something is wrong. You  have to realize and recognize that it’s probably not a good thing. People aren’t gonna  be happy around you, right? You just want to break everything or whatever. You might  even be slightly depressed. Take a walk, go outside, talk to a tree. Hug a  tree. I don’t know. Just get out of your head. Right? If you meditate, meditate.  If you love surfing, go surf. Do something that just gets your mind off life,  so to speak. You know, where you can just zen out so to speak. Whatever.  And everyone’s got something they do. Read a fiction book. I always mix that up,  because I only read nonfiction. Anyways, listen … Talk to a parent that makes you  happy or a friend that makes you happy that has nothing to do with your  life, business, or whatever. Call somebody. Do something. That’s just an unproductive mode for us  when we want to just break everything and tear everything down. The way you describe  it, I think it’s very visceral. Everyone knows that feeling I would say. Go do  something that just distracts you from that feeling and you’ll generally come back in a  much better spot.

Steli Efti:

I love that. I’m on the, “Go hug a tree. I have to hug a  tree today.” Just because I haven’t done that.

Hiten Shah:

Great idea.

Steli Efti:

When was the last time I’ve hugged a tree is a question I don’t have  the answer to, which is probably a bad thing, or it’s probably a good idea  for me to hug a tree today, so good answer tomorrow.

Hiten Shah:

That’s great. That’s great. I love it.

Steli Efti:

Alright, so let’s wrap this episode up. I think that some people might ask themselves,  “Well, okay, you guys really looked deeply into how do I manage and deal with  having these emotions, myself. But I’m not that emotional of a person. I have these  emotions under control. But a lot of other people are super emotional. My employees are emotional. Some team member or confounder, how do I deal with other human’s emotion?” My  comment on this, I’m curious to hear yours, as kind of the closing statement to  this podcast. My take on this is that, you deal with other people’s emotions the  same way you deal with yours, but if you don’t know how to manage your  own emotional household, and how to deal with your own emotions, you’re not gonna be  able to deal with other people’s. So when people come and they’re overwhelmed, they’re angry,  they’re fearful, be able to recognize that they’re at a very heightened emotional state that  makes them irrational, it makes them act or communicate or think in a way that’s  not their average normal self. Be able to recognize that in yourself will help you  recognize that in others. And when you recognize it in others, it’s much easier for  you to deal with them, because you’re not just like, “Why is this person saying  I’m an asshole?” You’re just saying, “Huh. Why is this person so angry?” That shift  in interpretation of reality of what’s happening makes a big difference. You going, “Why is  this person so pissed at me?” Is different from you going, “Why is this person  so pissed? What happened? Why is this person in such a strong state? How can  I help them get out of it? How can I help them manage it? And  how can I help them make sure that … To prevent it moving forward?” So  I think that the way you manage other people’s emotions is the way you manage  your own, and it all starts with even having the awareness and noticing the states  that people are in, and nut just what they say and do and how they  behave. If you do that it becomes much, much, much easier over time to deal  with other people’s, as well as with your own emotions.

Hiten Shah:

Yeah. Totally agree. That’s great.

Steli Efti:

Awesome. I think that’s it from us for today. Go hug a tree, and we’ll  hear you very, very soon.

Hiten Shah:

If you go hug a tree, let us know. Hnshah@gmail.com, or hit us up on Twitter, hnshah on Twitter, Steli, S-T-E-L-I on Twitter. We’d love to hear from you, especially  if you hugged a tree today.

Steli Efti:

Especially if you hugged a tree today, so true. Alright, looking forward to hearing from  all of you guys. Bye-bye.

Hiten Shah:

Bye.